Codecs and Tags and Libraries
Over at Zuneinsider.com, Cesar Menendez asked folks for questions about Zune. He asked me to take a stab at a couple of key technical ones.
First, a lot of folks wanted to know why Zune isn’t supporting some additional codecs – notably Ogg and FLAC. This is a good question, and we did spent a lot of time in the early days going through lists of codecs. In the end, we opted to focus on the most mainstream codecs first (and really getting them right - each codec is it's own implementation challenge). We’re certainly actively considering codecs in the future, but for now we think the list we’ve got answers the most users’ needs.
A second question was whether Zune will have a tag based library, or a directory-based one. The answer is tag-based. Some features:
- I think most readers will appreciate what a mess the tag space can be. Users have files with id3v1, id3v3, etc… mixed up in various files. The Zune Software’s library will do a good job of automatically cleaning this mess up for users whenever they edit a file’s properties.
- The library indexes music, videos, and photos.
- The library is very fast. Even a very large, 25,000 file library is very zippy for scrolling, jumping around, filtering and searching.
- We provide a background web service that helps fill in missing data (like album art, artist, genre, etc…) automatically, and UI that helps you manually clean up your library.
Feel free to post follow-ups if and comments if you have any!
posted by David Caulton at 1:26 PM
16 Comments:
Hey there... The codecs stuff is a mess. Someone is going to complain about something being left out. It's hard to please everyone with this. Personally, I threw a raging fit when I heard that the Zune won't be allowing media center video files (ms-dvr), such as the tv shows that I record. I'm still not over it. And, I still don't get it. After all, aren't the Zune and the Gigabeat (and every other PMC out there) cousins(:
Anyway, good to see more of the zune team with blog spaces and congrats on the well-covered debut. About the codecs, are there any bit rate or resolution limitations in terms of what WMV files the zune can play?
I really do think that could be the biggest killer for Zune (not supporting Flac and Ogg). Zune really needs to separate themselves from the iPod. The wireless is not enough. That alone is not going to push someone to get a Zune. I hope you guys come up with a very good price, because without that there is no chance of me buying one.
A suggestion would be to develop an optional add on that would support FLAC, SHN, OGG, etc.
About the tags I think this is a good way to go since I am one of those users that his music library neatly organized. Took me a while to organize my small but powerful 4500 mp3s but the rewards far outweigh the disadvantages.
Will future versions of Zune support Audible files?
iPod does and I think the population of commuters that use iPods for e-books is large enough that Zune ought to support the Audible format. My $.02.
- Harvey
http://www.zunerama.com
I was thinking why not allow both? Say tag based for average joe user and directory based for power users?
When I read "tag-based" I was thinking like flickr-style tags, then I realized you just meant ID3, which got my hopes up then dashed them.
One of my biggets grips about ID3 is that there is no way to easily put songs into multiple categories. That song isn't just "Punk", it's Punk, it's Ska plus it's just plain "High Energy". That song is by early Devo so I call it "Punk" but it's also "80's" See where I'm going? Better yet, tag songs as "party", "workout", "80's", "dance", etc. and then I can pull together my playlists from tags automatically instead of having to carefully construct a million playlists.
Also, I just don't get it, what is so special about Flac or Ogg and why are people half-mad with the need for their support? Someone said they thought it would actually be a killer not to support Flac or Ogg which to me just seems odd. Given that 95% of consumers have probably never even heard of Flac or Ogg how could it kill a product? Wireless a consumer gets, everyone hates wires but most people don't even know what a codec is.
For Shawn: Ogg Vorbis is important to users as it consistently wins listening tests, is completely free, and has excellent tag support. It is very much the "best" codec available.
FLAC is its lossless cousin. Audiophiles would like it, but many don't realise that use a lossless codec on a portable kills the battery life as the disk as to be kept spinning to read the large files.
Will we be able to sort our music by comments in the Zune device.
I really have to agree with Connor's comment about the ogg and FLAC support. Zune really needs some more features to speak for itself than the wireless thing. While I'm glad that you're considering those codecs for the future, the ability to play these files would certainly boost your sales numbers as there aren't many other agg/flac alternatives out there (and even less good ones).
Besides "considering for the future" always leaves me with a taste of "won't ever happen"... :(
If there is NO FLAC or SHN support in the Zune then I hgave no reason to get one.
FLAC and SHN pretty much guarentees that I will own one, without FLKAC and SHN support it pretty much guarentees I won't even consider it.
Same here. No FLAC, no Zune for me. At least with my iPod I can load Rockbox and get robust codec support.
I'm also completely and utterly boggled as to why Zune is linked to Zune software and can't simply sync to WMP. If this is all about making it easy for the user, why add another layer of complexity with a whole separate piece of software? Isn't WMP made to sync with stuff? There's a "Sync" option in WMP, for crissake. What's that for? Looks?
Or am I misinformed?
anon said "but many don't realize that use a lossless codec on a portable kills the battery life as the disk as to be kept spinning to read the large files."
That's not why I want support for FLAC. Personally, I don't expect my PMP to play lossless formats. FLAC at lower bitrate, that would be great/perfect world (but I don't expect that). But I do think my Media Manager should be able to read and play my FLAC lossless library and then sync that lossless library to the PMP at a lower bitrate. If it means on the fly conversion of FLAC to say 192 bit MP3 or WMA or AIFF, then so be it. But it drives me CRAZY that I have to maintain two different libraries if I want to use a ipod or zune in such a matter. There are solutions I know. I use mediamonkey to sync my FLAC files to an ipod in lossy MP3 formats. But it isn't the most elegant solution. Although I am growing very fond of MediaMonkey 3. Maybe they will build some Zune support into it. But family members who need to read the same library want to use iTunes or WMP11 when playing around with music, not what I, tech geek, use to satisfy my lossless desires.
Some of us would gladly trade some battery life for higher quality audio.
I originally purchased a Rio Karma for its FLAC support. Wish I hadn't dropped it. Wish Rio still made players, too.
Well I got a Zune as a gift I was really excited about it. It will hold my entire audio library and still have a little room to grow. But it turns out the software for the PC is a total joke. It doesn't recognize the majority of my audio files. It is impossible to manage my library of over 15000 songs because it insists on some BS outdated tag system. Even MP3 players from ten years ago let me use the folder system. Now all I have is a big un-manageable mess. This pretty much makes this new Zune just a large heavy paperweight and is beyond frustrating! What are the chances of the codecs issues and the ridiculous non file based system getting fixed?
Is there any update on whether the new Zune will/can support ogg? It's just a codec right? If not I guess I'm back to iriver or something running windows mobile?
I'm looking for a new player, if the Zune supported FLAC I would buy it. I have Rockbox on both of my other players for FLAC support. I think I'm going to buy the Cowon D2, less storage than I want but I can play my FLAC files and add an SDHC card for additional capacity. Would have been nice to get the Zune 80...maybe next gen.
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