Codec Requests
Special reminder - this is my opinion, not official policy.
The comments below include a lot of requests for additional codecs. I'll be a bit controvercial here and lay out my thoughts on these.
Codecs per se don't matter. Mainstream consumers don't care about how many codecs you have, what licensing terms they offer, how good the compression of the codecs is, etc....
What matters is access to content. If you ripped in iTunes, you've got AAC files. If you own a Media Center PC and have a lot of DVR-MS files, you care about that format. If you download videos from bittorrent, then DivX matters. If you rent movies online, then WMV matters. If you subscribe to video podcasts, h.264 and mpeg-4 matter. Content drives customers, and so you should see increasing support of codecs that give consumers access to a lot of cool content.
Codecs for CD ripping are important, but mostly for particular scenarios.
- You need MP3 for interoperability.
- You need a high efficiency codec - We picked WMA for maximum quality/compression.
- To capture some audiophiles, you need a lossless codec. WMA Pro gives you perfect quality in a big file size.
End of story. MP3 is pretty irreplaceable, but you could pretty happily swap out things in this set - AAC for WMA, Another lossless format for WMA Pro. But adding lots of additional codecs doesn't make sense to me given that they add complexity, risk, and cost to the device and software.
27 Comments:
Of course consumers don't care about codecs....but they will care about trying to sync up movies that are already on their hard drive, and the Zune desktop software takes a few hours to 'transcode on the fly'
What I was getting at was that SUPPORT for various codecs should be on the device, not in the PC software.
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Hello,
I think as it stands right now for audio all that Zune needs is a lossless codec (any). For video I am not sure, but I guess DivX matters a lot.
On a different note I think the Zune kiosks could have been better. I saw one at Circuit City and it looked a bit messy. I mean if someone is walking past it, his/her eye might not go to it directly. Just a thought.
The DVR files from media center are the big thing that I care about. Using those programs to convert to wmv is just tedious.
Give me Divx and I'll be happy.
"We picked WMA for maximum quality/compression."
"We picked WMA because we make it."
Corrected for you. The huge issue not addressed is that Zune hacks were claiming H.264 and mpeg-4 support for weeks, but it turns out it's only supported via the application on the PC and not the device. Clearly your lame value/need criteria are met if you added those codecs in the software. But you are unwilling to address that issue at this time.
The first post also nailed it: I don't want to wait for transcoding. I don't want duplicates. I don't want you deciding that I should prefer your format than the one of my choice for me.
i agree, i want some divx. and i think (although it would be much more difficult) that it should be supported natively. not converted through marketplace, because everyone knows how long video conversion takes.
Yep, my biggest complaint is not supporting MP4 and h.264 natively on the device. Or you could have at least made it simpler to convert using the software. I would like to tell it which videos to convert and when, not have it passively convert when I am not using my computer. Plus, when I purchase a Zune, it will be a while before all my videos finally make it over to the Zune because I have to wait for everything to be re-encoded in WMV.
First off, thanks Dav for your great Blog. This is my take on the extra 'specialist' support people are asking for.
Its the specialist users that spread the word about a product. Do you think iPod's just magically became successful on their own? No, it's because they have many fanatical spokes people that have spread the good word. If Zune is to be really successful Microsoft must create a similar following.
Microsoft must remove any and all reasons NOT to buy a Zune. If anything is lacking it will be highlighted by those that want Zune to fail.
By supporting things like Codecs, Podcasting integration and adding mass storage, you get the people that are most passionate about devices like this on your side. Without those people you'll always be playing catchup with Apple and their legion of fans.
I think Zune can be a great product, the hardware is almost there, the software support just needs to back it up. Once the launch is over I'd really like to see a more positive attitude towards added features, instead of justifications why something is not needed. I'm hoping you guys have some great new features just around the corner to silence to critics. Being from the UK I will not have the chance to see for myself :(
Good luck on the launch, I'll be keeping an eye open for the UK launch dates (hope its soon).
Div X, Div X, Div X!!! Torrent sites aren't the only to use this. Several websites use avi's that are co-coded with div x and a more popularly supported audio codec. I love putting trailers, video-casts, and etc. on my PSP but it doesn't do everything perfectly. I want my Zune to at least do this right...
Come on!!!
Oh god. http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/13/installing-the-zune-sucked/
Please tell me codecs aren't your biggest concern at this point... I had difficulty with the install as well, and to be honest, it's wearing on my fanboyness. How quickly may we expect an update?
I asked Zunester about beta testing some time ago. The response was that they didn't need it, you know the whole vertical integration lecture and how there were less scenarios to test than in WMP 11. I guess not. Maybe next time they'll stop being so secretive and release a beta to get the bugs out. I guess we'll see thousands of computers crashing tomorrow in what will probably be a PR nightmare for Microsoft this week. Way to start off the Zune platform huh....?..?
@sportsunit: yeah, I remember you asking him and his reply. It's just really a shame because of how similar WMP 11 and Zune are. Sure, WMP 11 is having its own issues, but it seems that the interface guys got to hacking away at the code before the devs did. Don't get me wrong, I love a pretty interface as much as anyone else, but I can't stand to see this happen.
David, assure me that something's being done... With any luck, the reason you're not responding is because you're off at some secret meeting working on this now.
But I concur with Sportsunit; next time, release at least a preview version, now that we're not so much in the dark about Zune...
Lets hold our guns here. Let us try to install the Software ourself and see what happens.
In fact at Gizmodo they did not have any trouble:
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-media/zune-software-plays-nicely-with-itunes-214532.php
Check it out. So as I said lets try and install this ourself and see how it works out.
"Codecs per se don't matter."
"What matters is access to content."
With MS's actions regarding the first quote, you have completely missed the point of the second.
By offering such a limited codec support and requiring users to reencode their content you instantly turn them off (or at the very least make them less enthusiastic). As others have noted, offering the broadest codec support would give access to the greatest number of consumers without them even knowing it. I think this choice is going to bite you in the ass.
What about support for Vista? I'm using RC2 (build 5744) and I can't install the Zunesetup program. I tried running with XP SP2 compatibility and "run as administrator". The setup goes to about 40% then quits!?!
Vista support will be ready in time for Vista ship; not supported today.
Briefly: I agree with many of the comments above; support for codecs in the client isn't good enough; the device needs to support natively for a great experience.
I don't care if the Zune software needs to transcode files to put them on the Zune device. In fact, that's probably a good way to save space in a constrained portable environment.
I just care that the software is able to recognize basically any video/audio file on my PC and can transcode it. And I care that I have options to make sure I get good quality where I care about it, and small transcoded files where I care more about space.
"Vista support will be ready in time for Vista ship; not supported today."
That's an incredibly weak goal. Frankly, it's pathetic.
Thousands of MSDN subscribers and technet users, press reviewers, and businesses with site licenses will have Vista way before the Jan 30th date. In fact, thousands have the final version now (legitimately).
Lack of support for the biggest OS ever to come out of the company, with just a promise that "oh we'll have it when it ships" is sad.
Eh, I'm holding off my guns. I installed Zune on my MCE 2005 laptop, and ran into a number of troubles. I installed it on my slower, older Win XP (which has had XP since Beta2) and it worked fine. You must understand how frustrating it is to have an issue with a piece of software from a major corperation only to find that it is not supported. Hopefully the newly launched Zune.net support area will rectify this. Thanks and good luck with the launch.
First off, great blog and thanks for all of your insights.
As for codec support, I think the potential Zune user community would love to see FLAC support on the Zune. A jamband fan myself, many of these bands support taping and trading of thier performances in lossless (FLAC or SHN) format and with the WiFi/File sharing capabilities of the Zune, the player would become a favorite for those of us that are into this scene.
I would be 100% happy with my new zune if it did any type of Lossless audio format.
Anything lossless please.
As is I like it but won't see it as a serious audio tool until it does lossless
@Jason Cross: What percentage of Microsoft's Zune coding resources should be allocated for Vista support? I ask because it sounds like you have some expertise in managing a program like the Zune release.
Keep in mind, MSDN and corporate (Zune) users are an incredibly small minority right now. On the otherhand, XP is likely used by 99%+ of Zune users. Any added Vista resources would slow improvement to the core XP software (which everyone is clamoring for); nothing is free. There is plenty of time to get the Vista version right, and Microsoft should be lauded for this approach, not vilified.
You make a very valid comment - consumers should have access to the content they obtained.
In its current form however, the Zune supports virtually none of the codecs you listed in this article, including:
DivX, DVR-MS, H-264 and mpeg-4.
Granted, there ARE ways to get over this hassle by conversion - but the built in support currently available in the Zune software is limited and slow and other options on the market share similar or greater hassles (especially when it comes to converting the above files into wmv format).
While you are pretty much on par with your nearest competion in terms of audio features, you still haven't quite matched them in terms of video codec support.
If the Zune really expects to make any inroads into the competion it needs to think beyond the capabilites of its competitors - attracting new consumers that just might prefer to save themselves the hassle of converting their DivX, Xvid or other files currently in limited support in this market - but you can't even do this if you haven't even matched your competitors abilites yet.
If the extra effort it takes to get the Zune to support another codec helps it gain even a handfull of customers - it should be more than worth it. Cause in this stage of the 'battle' - the more relationships you can establish at the begining the better.
Heck, you might even consider supporting Linux (w/support for files like .ogg)- simply because it's an opportunity to establish yourselves in a resonably neglected, yet still significant community.
Anyways, wish the Zune the best of luck! You might be glad to know that depsite these flaws, I am still strongly considering getting one.
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