And now for something completely different...
I've been shopping for cars this winter; getting ready for the every-eight-years replacement of cars. I really love to drive, but have tended to be value oriented in the past. I've been really struck by what a fantastic array of cars there are on the market for people who love to drive. Some examples:
The MazdaSpeed3 - Amazing little car for under $25k. Nice practical formfactor and 265HP w/ 280 lb-ft of torque. Amazing value - if I were looking to simply replace my 1999 Honda Civic SI, this would be a great contender. I'm actually looking to move upmarket and get a bit more refinement/AWD, so probably not.
Subaru Imprezas. Drove both the WRX and the (amazing) WRX STI. Considering the WRX costs under $25k, it's a great alternative to the Mazda, and includes AWD. It's got a nice beefy engine and has great handling. The STI is simply breathtaking for under $35k - 300bhp and handles beautifully. I ended up turning away from these as they felt a little too barebones for my taste, and a call to my insurance company confirmed my worst fears - these babies are very expensive to insure - more than any other car I'll discuss.
For completeness, I looked upmarket. My first choice was to use my head and get a really reliable Japanese car. I drove two:
Lexus IS350 Sedan ($36k). Wow, was this a nice car. Really well built, beautiful in every detail, high tech but classy interior. I really wanted to like it. Got in and drove it and immediately noted that it's (a) incredibly powerful and (b) not for me. First, the 350 doesn't come with a standard transmission (Really? A performance SKU with no std trans?). They include paddle shifters, but I felt these really distanced me from the driving experience - not a good replacement for clutch and stick. Second, the handling and ride, while superb, was also very distanced from the road. I'd discribe it as driving a really nice paper airplane with a jet engine. Smooth and fast, but without a lot of soul. For me, this car felt like a Mercedes competitor, not really a driver's car.
Infiniti G35s Sedan ($34k). Thankfully, the infiniti came with a standard transmission. This car was also really nice, and handled really well. Great brakes. Awesome price. Felt much better to drive than the Lexus, too. The technology in this car (bluetooth, nav, etc...) is really the best of any car I've driven. The pricing is better than it sounds, since you get nearly everything you'd want in the base price. This one has a pretty good chance with me.
I then went on to try out cars from their Axis partners, the Germans. A note on the prices - the German cars need to get loaded up with another $4k or more to equal the skus mentioned above, so pricing comparisons are tricky.
Audi. I considered the s4 and rs4, but recoiled in horror at the price. I ended up driving the A4 models. the A4 2.0T Quattro ($30k+) lost me right away. After driving the 300BHP Japanese cars, it simply didn't feel spunky enough. I'll talk about A4 handling under the 3.2 below since they were identical in this dimension.
The A4 3.2 Quattro ($36k+), on the other hand, convinced me immediately that the Germans know what they are doing. The power and torque were great, and the driving feel was vastly nicer than even the Infiniti. Until I drove this car, I'd begun to think nobody in the near-luxury class would be able to offer me the "spunky and fun" handling that my Honda Civic SI (and the Subarus) had, but this car was just as fun and more powerful/refined. I liked the interior feel, and the options were nice. This is a great car. Compared to the Japanese, I worry about reliability, but maybe that's missing the point in this class.
Of course, you're silly to look into this category without at least considering the BMWs.
BMW 328xi ($34k). This was my first time behind the wheel of a BMW. It's hard to describe how much fun this car is. Really. It's got lots of pep (230bhp), and handles well. Pretty much all the cars I'm describing do that. But the feel of the BMW is just a bit better than the Audi (which itself is fantastic) and vastly better than the Japanese cars. I realize this whole "feel" thing is very subjective, but for me, the BMW is hard to beat. I also liked the interior of the BMW - not all gadgety like the Infiniti, but with all the nice goodies.
BMW 335xi ($41k). Drove this one (actually a 335i since the xi isn't out yet) for completeness. Almost identical to the 328, but with 300bhp. Amazing Turbo engine gives you massive accelleration even at highway speeds, but with good gas mileage and no turbo lag. Wow, this is nice. The price isn't as much higher than the 328xi as it seems; by the time you price it out with options, you end up just $4000 higher than the 328. Good deal considering the power difference. But in absolute terms, you end up around $50k loaded for this one - a vast difference from the $25k cars we started with.
So, I'm not buying until late summer, but the variety of cars - and the quality and power - that's available at the sub $30k range is really stunning. I haven't driven the VW's and the Hondas, but I'd guess those are great options too.
What do readers think? Have you driven any of these? Longer term experiences? Did I forget anything that I just have to try?
32 Comments:
Dave,
Also try the Acura TL and the TL TypeS. You can put them on par with the Infiniti's, but it is a front driver and won't be the same feel as the BMW (is anything really?) Volvo S60 or S60R are also options. A lot of people seem to be liking the Saturns too lately, but I can't bring myself to own one.
You'll also find little bits of engineering in the BMW that will surprise you. For example, you can roll up all windows with one touch, the sunroof allows you to close it even if the engine is off, just little touches that tell you how much thought went into it.
Don't know if you are looking for something new or used, but I would highly recommend looking for a used BMW. Especially now with the redesigned 3 Series (E90) out, you can probably pick up a used 05 330xi for a very reasonable price.
I have an 01 BMW 330xi and I love it.
I bought a WRX back in 2004. I love it. It isn't the most comfortable car in traffic but I did a trip to yellow stone and it was amazing!!
Now the obligatory discussion about whether Premium/regular and where you got it from makes a difference...
As for premium vs. regular it isn't about performance -- well, kind of. The only reason you want to run premium is if your engine's compression is higher than the majority of car engines out there.
A higher octane rating does not mean cleaner burning or more horsepower, it just means it resists pinging (or knocking) better. Run regular in a high-compression engine and you risk mechanical failure due to early detonation in the cylinders.
So, STOP PAYING MORE FOR PREMIUM -- unless you have to.
I still drive a 70 chevy (It needs repairs, but it's a classic) so I can't tell you how the new cars handle, but I can give advice you won't see from anyone else. For a while, I moonlighted as a tow truck driver. (BTW, it's like a whole different world. Co-workers that not only don't have any college education, but some of them have never even used a mouse!)
AWD: They're not fun to tow (Have to use a flatbed or dollies, most of the time) and they do make the car more complex, but it looks like you have an actual need for it (As opposed to the SUV that never sees even a pothole).
If I could steer anyone away from getting a car that "requires" a flatbed, I would. A flatbed often won't fit in a garage, and your car on the flatbed would become a convertible in the worst way possible anyways. And of course, pushing a car from an underground parking garage is not an option.
Spare tire: Check the trunks for the spare. Most cars these days have a compact spare, which is good for tooling around the city for a day or two, but if you do long drives, avoid. No faster than 50MPH, no chains, keep at 60PSI, etc. Not what you want when you get a flat on the freeway. Some cars don't even have space for a full-size, so check first.
Keys and security: Have at least 2 backup keys for whatever car you have. It's cheaper to have a key copied than a new one generated, and everything you'll be looking at is laser-cut, which means the locksmith won't be able to quickly make one.
If you can get the option of accessing the trunk from the cabin, get it. If you lock your keys in the trunk, most high-end car alarms disable the trunk release. One lady locked her purse in the trunk of a Beemer, and I towed her car to the dealer on a sunday. She was without keys, wallet, phone, ID, everything for a few days. She would have been homeless were it not for the garage door opener in the cabin, and the sales guys bending the rules (ID required) so she could have a loaner.
Lexus/Toyota is the winner in this realm, as their cars have the best balance of security and sanity: when the car alarm goes off, it also uses the power locks to lock itself back up. It is possible to open, as there's a split-second window, but it takes several tries, and someone stealing the car will just go to the next car instead.
BMW is actually too secure for my taste. They have a deadbolt-like system such that if you lock the car with the driver-side door lock or keyless lock, secondary locks physically lock the primary locks from moving up or down. Nothing, not even being inside the car and pulling on the locks, will undo them, save the key. If a kid is locked in the car from this, I recommend breaking one of the smaller windows.
The other BMW gotcha is their door locks are almost completely electrical. If the battery is drained, you will not be able to open the car, not even with your key in the lock and turning it. There is a manual override for this (Pulling out the handle all the way, and then turning the key to work up the lock) but it's a doozy. Most sporty BMWs have the battery in the trunk, however, so it's simply a case of unlocking the trunk, and jumping from there.
Audi/VW do one thing that I hope, as a trend, dies. They only have a keyhole on the driver's side door. I've had to tow a beetle (you know, the fake bug that's really a Jetta underneath) because the lock mechanism broke on the driver's side, meaning he had no way to unlock his car. (I wasn't successful in unlocking)
Jaguar (now part of Ford) have the world's strangest key. It looks like a tiny club with the ball at the end, and you can only get it from the dealer. I'm not a fan of it, but it's an interesting footnote.
Electrical: Most high-end cars have the battery in the back, either in the trunk or with MBZ, sometimes under the rear seat. For convenience, they offer a positive equivalency point, (A terminal marked +) under the hood. This I recommend. You can hook directly up to these last with little fear. The issues about jump-starting with the car frame and order are to avoid sparks near the battery. These terminals sidestep the problem neatly.
Saturn has one major drawback here. Electrical seems to be their weak point, at least in the older models. That and they put the alternator way in back, so you literally have to take out half the engine.
Audi/VWs in the electrical realm are the major losers. As a car to drive, they're good, but when they break down, they fall over and die. Never ever let the battery on an Audi die. The computer will lose its memory, and it's a tow to the dealer for a $500 reset before it'll work again.
Nissan/Infinity I don't have much to say about here, beyond Murphy's law dictates that their starter motors are troublesome on the lower end; Said motors are behind the engine, and impossible to get to easily.
Erratta: I don't have any input on the Mazda, sadly, there wasn't enough of an impression for me to get any snap judgments about it.
Were you getting a non-sporty car, I'd have suggested the Toyota Avalon. That's a lexus without the lexus brandname and lexus price tag. But it's an around-the-city car, not sporty.
Beemers are known as Break My Wallet for a reason, and their achilles heel appears to be overheating and broken thermostats and radiators (some models have plastic radiators for weight/cost reasons, and I've seen a few that brake at the hot water return). The 3 series are more memorable in this aspect. I suspect more memorable because their front end is low enough to the ground to require dollies (the tiny wheels) to get clearance when towing. 7 series at least don't need dollies.
Having said all that, I'm surprised you haven't looked at a BMW Z series. It's quite sporty, and I believe it does have standard 6-speed as an option, I think full-size spare (or at least room for it), and battery in the back. Get a few copies of the keys made, and most of the issues won't be a problem.
(Finally, seconding Jeff's point. Premium in an engine designed for standard gives you no performance boost, and standard in an engine designed for premium is very not suggested, unless you don't have enough gas to get to the gas station. Cars these days can compensate for knocking, but at a cost in terms of performance and longevity)
I'm a Honda devotee.
Bought a Honda Accord new and drove it for five years from 2001 to 2006, the best car I've ever driven. Completely without trouble, ridiculously smooth clutch action (I'm weird and prefer manual transmissions), nice acceleration, ran at 100mph for long driving trips with no problem (except cops, which I managed to avoid), good gas mileage, incredibly well-designed on the interior, everything in its proper place.
You may be able to tell I'm a bit wistful, as I had to trade it in for a larger car, and decided on a Subaru Outback after many recommendations. Got the turbo, so it's fun to drive (dangerously fast acceleration), and it handles well in crappy weather (like this winter in Seattle), but overall it just doesn't seem well made. Little plastic cargo bay doohickey broke in days. E-brake has to be pulled up ALL THE WAY or it rolls (and let me tell you how scary that was the first time it happened). Clutch doesn't feel quite right. Terrible mileage, averaging around 17 (3 miles lower than advertised). Requires premium fuel because of the high compression.
In short, I preferred my five-year-old Accord to this car.
People love their Acuras, but they're just upmarket Hondas.
Don't buy an Audi unless you enjoy large and frequent repair bills. Same with a SAAB. VWs drive well but can give electrical system nightmares. I like BMWs but have never owned one, have heard they can nickel-and-dime you to death. I have driven two Fords--a 1994 Taurus and 1989 Escort--and both drove well, but had lots of fit and finish problems, and when things start to go wrong they cascade and you end up with $1000 repair bills. Drove a GM--a Buick--once and will never own another GM car.
Several folks have mentioned tiny cars - cooper mini, etc. Agree, I'd love to get one of those, but did I mention the three kids?
Wife insists on being able to fit two comfortably and three in a pinch in the back.
Others have mentioned Acura, others. I'm really hoping to get an AWD or RWD car; my Honda is great but I miss the fun of handling that's hard to get in FWD.
The "used BMW" comment is a great suggestion; I keep hunting for exactly that car (2005 or so 330xi), but for some reason there aren't many std xmission 3 series on the market, so it's a serious waiting game.
it really depends on how much work you're willing to put into the car.
if you can afford it and are willing to put the work to keep up the bmw with maintenance then go for it.
and since you're checking out STI's.. go try out a lancer evo for kicks..
re: Premium vs. Regular.
I think we should kick off a really passionate long argument over whether anyone is using the right type of premium, the fact that BMW has backed premium since 1999 and thus it's the best kind of gas to get, and the backend costs for station owners of running high octane gas advertisements (or not). Also, we should call the gasoline proponents neanderthals because they're backing a ONE HUNDRED YEAR OLD STANDARD instead of moving on to the newest hydrogen fuels.
;)
I think we should kick off a really passionate long argument
Heh. In that case, cooking-oil-running engines would be the Ogg Vorbis of the group. Freely obtainable but used by hardly anyone, despite having very vocal advocates. This is probably because said advocates often smell of McDonalds french fries. (I kid! I kid!) By the way, final word on Premium vs Regular here and here.
And don't get me started. Car standards aren't. It's the only industry that will use a half-inch bolt to hold in the battery, and electrically connect to the battery using 10millimeter bolts. And the batteries themselves are about 3 to 4 dozen different kinds, despite all of them being 12 volts, and ranging only from 500 Cold Cranking Amps to 1000 Cold Cranking Amps. Instead, the kinds vary because one is one millimeter wider in one way, and two millimeters shorter the other. And then there's things like 24F, which is identical in size and shape to 24, except that the positive and negative terminals are reversed.
Also, if you were looking to go into the cheap end of things, Toyota Celicas and Supras more often than not are RWD. But like it's been said before, a used Beemer is probably your best bet. Just make sure it's got a good warranty, or you're friends with a good mechanic.
Looking for a used BMW I would recommend grabbing a copy of "Roundel." It is the BMW CCA magazine and it has a used section in the back. The cars are owned by current BMWCCA members so in general they are very well cared for and usually are trims that are more interesting for drivers (manual transmission, sport packages, etc...). You can find a copy usually sitting around any private BMW shop. The best one around is 'Eastside Bavarian' which is located in Issaquah.
I can not BELIEVE how cheap cars are in the US. Here in Australia a BMW 335 costs $104,500 (plus dealer charges, on road costs etc).
I'm looking at buying a Golf GTI, and even that is 40k RRP.
If I was paying US prices, I'd pick up the 335 in a heartbeat.
We have a 2001 Audi S4 AWD that, amazingly, has been very little trouble. The 300 HP (after turbo chip tweaking) is a little outclassed now, but it's still a fun slot car. Barely enough room for kids, though. If I do have a major problem eventually, it'll be costly.
In 2002, I recommended that my mother buy a boring and reliable Honda Accord. 3 transmission failures later (1 repair attempt & 2 replacements)... and she doesn't trust me anymore. :)
I also have a statistically unreliable (British!) 2005 Land Rover and regularly beat it to hell. A new model, even. Rock solid and no significant problems.
I seem to go against reliability statistics. :)
The age of your kids is truly the issue here. I assume from the selection you have mentioned, you're not the minivan type, and don't seem to be experiencing too big of a midlife crisis. Are you an automatic or a stick kinda guy?
And re the premium v. regular debate: I had hoped that my allusion to our *sniff* recently exorcised colleague would be acceptable, especially in light of the new moderation thrown into place. Will you try stepping it down in a week or so so we don't have to bug you with each and every minute detail? He should be pretty much gone by then...
"Are you an automatic or a stick kinda guy?"
The kind of cars he test drove, I hope he is a stick kinda guy. :-) IMO, an AT defeats the purpose of owning a sports sedan. Just my 2 cents on the topic.
um... stillanonymous, where are you?
:)
Aw man, you just missed buying my 2005 Subaru STi. 2004-2005 were the best body style for the STi's.
I sold it because I just bought (another) 1993 Mazda Rx-7. Now THAT is a real sports car.
Can't wait to hook my Zune up to the new Rx-7 :D
dw: Dave's regulating comments now. I highly doubt we'll see him or his ilk again.
You use Indian call centers, right? I am having a problem with my Zune and am currently on the hone with someone who does not seem to know what he is doing (well, I am on hold so that he can cunsult with his supervisor). Basically, all he did was point to all the help files I already viewed.
I am unimpressed.
- Paul H.
Something is wrong with my device. Despite the fact that it is still under warranty, there is nothing I can do about it because my mother-in-law who gave me the device no longer has the receipt.
My wife had problems with her iPod. They did the service under the warranty without receipt (another gift from her mother).
If I cannot get service under the warranty, I will NEVER get another Zune again.
- Paul (a very disgruntled formerly happy Zune user)
Try an Acura TSX with a 6-speed...very nice handling ride for $30k or less, and well built.
You might check out this review from parents.com on good family cars (since your wife wants kids to go along for the ride)
Best Family Cars 2007
I have been having trouble with Zune support. My Zune went out, they acknowledge that it is under warranty, but will not give me service until I get a receipt. It was a gift and the gift giver does not know if she still has it.
According to support, no receipt, no service. How can this be when it is under warranty? Does Microsoft really not want people giving these things as gifts?
Hey Dave,
I was wondering, could you elaborate a little on your duties on the Zune team entail and tell us a little about what is involved in an average day for you ?
Thanx,
-Charlie
Dave's regulating comments now. I highly doubt we'll see him or his ilk again.
Aw. I thought I was considered part of the mac-loving ilk. I'll have to try harder. ;) Truth be told, I was starting to worry about Dave in that it was a while where there wasn't any activity.
Paul: If you haven't already, try a forum on Zune Scene or similar. Knowing murphy's law as it applies to corporate structure, there probably won't be much that an engineer can do about support decisions, and you'd get a lot more help by others that have been in the same situation.
That is one thing I should have included back in the realm of 'ease of use' during the 'What's your preferred format' post. Support is a significant part of what's built the Apple fanbase that kept it alive during the dark ages of the Performas.
When I rendered my wife's iPod mini unbootable (Cute little ipod icon with Xs for eyes), the Mac Genius played with it for less than a minute trying to do a hardware reset before saying, "Sorry about that. Here's your new iPod." Not only did he not charge, nor ask for a receipt, he didn't even ask for any proof of warranty.
If Zune is to be successful, support after the sale is vital. It's already operating at a loss; invest in some goodwill. I'd even go so far as to suggest having a few Zune doctors in major metropolitan areas equipped with 100 Zunes. Zune owners call an 800 line and if they're within range, the doctor comes to them and either fixes or replaces right there, transferring over the files for them if possible, and giving them a few extra squirted songs. Who knows, they could even be akin to a portable Microsoft Store, selling additional Zunes or Zune accessories while there (however, it must be done pressure-free) to help recoup the operating expense.
Dave: We miss you! Post something so I can be ontopic again!
Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask, but I was just wondering if there's any indication of when 1.4 firmware will be out?
Thanks a lot!
Keep up the good work with the Zune. I love mine :)
Hey David, we haven't heard from you in awhile. Everything okay? I was wondering if you care to talk about the latest NPD# and if you are on target for a million units. Any other goings on?
I'm with mattydread on this one, Hondas and Acuras.
My family has owed Hondas in the past and they are definitely a brand that is reliable. Plus all their safety comes standard. I personally love their new Fit, but would also recommend Civics, even though they're everywhere.
My best friend has an Acura and she has no complaints over it whatsoever.
Dave -
what car did you end up with?
I had this come up & ran through a similar set of decisions (wanted performance/'unboring' driving yet have 2 kids & need space/reliability/safety
FWIW, went with the 2006 g35 - and got a great discount due to 07's coming out.
Great blog, thanks for keeping us in the loop on all things Zune
Scott R
And the answer is....(drumroll)
2007 BMW 335xi. Got a good deal from our dealer and custom ordered from the factory for the right color/options.
I loved all the cars I drove, but the 335 was just too amazing a deal in terms of handling and performance vs. price. Plus, owning a 3 series is a long term dream and my dear wife approved the spend...
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